John (The Powder Maker) Military Revolutionary War Service & More

In the recent email from Ray below, he makes a very good case why the traditional stories about John (TPM) service in the 3^rd VA Regiment and at King’s Mountain must be viewed with skepticism. He also knocks down two other very badly documented traditional stories about Benjamin (the Immigrant)’s "brother William" and the connection to John "burned at the stake" or "the Martyr" Rogers.

I totally agree with Ray on the "Brother William" and John "the Martyr" stories. There simply is no basis for them. However, while I am also extremely skeptical about John (TPM)’s service in the 3^rd VA and King’s Mountain, I am not sure that we can totally rule them out.

I encourage you to read the following, make your own evaluation and file it away for future reference and research.

Jerry

Subject: John (TPM's) Military Rev. War Service & More #2
Date: 10/24/2001 11:46:15 PM GMT Daylight Time
From: SWDLookN@aol.comTo: ROGERS-BEN-L@rootsweb.com
6/3/01, SWDLookN@aol.com

Cousin's
Some of you tend to believe the stories told by the researchers who were living a lot closer in time to the people we are researching, than we are. But you are forgetting the many tools we have at our fingertips to find the truth. Having said that, lets critique the writings of Stephen H. Rogers. (The researcher who you all are putting your faith in.)

The following is a paper, (1) not Dated, that I received from his daughter, Edith Rogers Carr.
Spelling and punctuation as written:

Genealogy of the Rogers Family
By Stephen H. Rogers
Speedwell, Tenn.

William and Benjamin brothers, Born in England date unknown came to America, in the years of 1700, it is claimed they were the (2) Great Great Grandson's of, John Rogers, The editor of the Mathews Bible who was put to death in Smithfield England, in the year 1555, by being burned at stake, on account of his religious vews, during the rule of The Blood-y Mary. These two brothers, first laned on the shores of Virginia: it said that William Rogers, went to Pennsylvania, have no father information of this
William Rogers. Benjamin Rogers fist settled in (3) Wythe County, Verginia, Benjamin Rogers, while in Wythe County Va. had a son (4) John Rogers; then born later moved to Blount County Tennessee; died there in the year 1802.

Benjamin Rogers son John, was a soldier in The American Revolution, he was in (5a) (8) (9) (10) The Battle of King's Mountain, October, 1780, and claimed to have fired the shot, that killed Ferguson. John Rogers moved to Washington County, Tenn. October (5b) 1782. Then later moved to Powell Valley, Claiborne, County Tenn. (5c) 1799. and settled, where John Ausmus Jr. now lives, died and burried at this last home; just across Highway No. 63 of last home.

The above John Rogers, was the father of 25 children, by three wives. His first marriage was to a Miss. Britton, by this marriage there were 8 children, 6 boys, 2. Girls: Namely: Jessee Rogers, settled in west, Tenn. Benjamin Rogers, settled in Kentucky; John Rogers Jr. in Missouri. Reuben Rogers in Knoxville, Tenn. William Rogers M.D. settled near Speedwell, Tenn. He married the (6) daughter of Sollomon and (7) Catherine Lewis Major David Rogers, settled near Speedwell, Tenn. he married, Polly Lewis a daughter of
Sollomon and (7) Catherine Lewis. Major David and William Rogers, M.D. joined farms. One girl married a man by the of Sharp, Made their in Missouria. The other girl, married, Jason Murry; made their home in Missouri. He then lists all the children of Major David & Polly Lewis Rogers.

Comments:
(1) Must have been written before the Monuments were placed at John (TPM) Rogers and Rev. Dr.William Rogers grave sites.
(2) Hasn't been verified.
(3) Benjamin's eldest sons were born in Culpeper County.... VA.
(4) We believe that John (TPM) was also born in Culpeper County. VA.
(5) Claiborne County History, Goodspeed Publishing Co., 1887. Biographical sketch of David F. Rogers. (a) If this was a traditional story told and retold down through the generations it should be in this biog.
(b) Moved to Washington Co. in 1791-92.
(c) Moved to Claiborne Co. in 1801.
(6) Didn't know the given name of Rev. Dr. William's wife.
(7) Solomon Lewis Revolutionary War Pension application #21927 & R6309. Catherine Lewis was the Lewis girls’ stepmother.
(8) Annals of Southwest Virginia 1769-1800 by Lewis Preston Summers. Vol. 1. page 771. About 50 men petitioned Montgomery County Court to pay them for provisions lost in action at Reedy Fork (Whitzell's Mill.) I searched the pension records for the men who lived long enough to apply for a pension. I examined all the records and not one soldier claimed to be at the Battle at Kings Mt.
(9) Annals Of Southwest Virginia, Vol. II, pages 1379-1410. Benjamin, James, David, Joseph, and John Rogers are listed, on page 1405, from Montgomery Co. and as having fought in the Battle of
Guilford C. H. (No mention of the Battle of King's Mt.)
(10) KING'S MOUNTAIN and ITS HEROES: history of the BATTLE OF KINGS MOUNTAIN, October 7th, 1780, and the events which led to it, by Lyman C. Draper, LL. D., 1881. Units from Montgomery County not mentioned.

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The following was taken from Old Speedwell Families, by Lawrence Edwards, 1955 The Rogers Family
The Rogers family of Speedwell started with John Rogers, a Revolutionary War soldier, who married three times and had twenty-five children. John Rogers came to Powell Valley, to the neighborhood now called
Speedwell, from Washington County, Tennessee, to which place he had earlier come from Wythe County, Virginia. It is thought that he fought at the (5a) (8) (9) (10) battle of King's Mountain. He settled at the spot where Johnny Ausmus now lives. The old Rogers homestead, still standing, was the home of Major, son of John, who built the East portion about 1799, possibly somewhat earlier.

Of John Rogers' twenty-five children, only two (Major David and William), whose offspring are still to be found at Speedwell, are considered in this genealogy. William and David came as young men with their father when he moved to Speedwell, for David born in 1779, and William must have been about the same
age. Although we do not have (11) Williams birth date, we do know that his grandson, French Haggard Rogers, was born in 1820. David Rogers, called Major David because he was a major in the (12) war of 1812 and (5a) as tradition has it fought with Jackson at the (13) battle of New Orleans, was the grandfather of Stephen Henderson Rogers, now living, at 88, at the old Rogers homestead at Speedwell. Dr. Frank T. Rogers, famous radiologist of Knoxville, is a great-grandson of Major David, and another great-grandson is Judge Jesse L. Rogers of LaFollette. Judge Rogers is also descended from William Rogers, on his father's side. Another famous descendant of William Rogers was Congressman J. Will Taylor, whom Tennessee's Republican Second District sent again and again to Congress. The list of famous lawyers and doctors among the progeny of David and William would be long.

I would be guilty of ingratitude, one of the worst of human failings, if I did not recognize here the debt I owe to Uncle Stephen Rogers for the help he gave me in gathering information about the Rogers family. His correspondence for several years has been very extensive, and a student of the Rogers family would find that body of correspondence a storehouse of information.

Comments:
(5) Claiborne County History, Goodspeed Publishing Co., 1887. Biographical sketch of David F. Rogers. (a) If this was a traditional story told and retold down through the generations it should be in this biog.
(8) Annals of Southwest Virginia 1769-1800 by Lewis Preston Summers. Vol. 1. page 771. About 50 men petitioned Montgomery County Court to pay them for provisions lost in action at Reedy Fork Whitzell's Mill.) I searched the pension records for the men who lived long enough to apply for a pension. I examined all the records and not one soldier claimed to be at the Battle at Kings Mt.
(9) Annals Of Southwest Virginia, Vol. II, pages 1379-1410. Benjamin, James, David, Joseph, and John Rogers are listed, on page 1405, from Montgomery Co. and as having fought in the Battle of Guilford
C. H. (No mention of the Battle of King's Mt.)
(10) KING'S MOUNTAIN and ITS HEROES: history of the BATTLE OF KINGS MOUNTAIN, October 7th, 1780, and the events which led to it, by Lyman C. Draper, LL. D., 1881. Units from Montgomery County not mentioned.
(11) Didn't know Rev. Dr. William's birth year.
(12) Major David's Bounty land Wt # 43304-80. He was in the War against the Creek Indians.
(13) War record embellished by grandson or great grandchild.

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The following was taken from THE PEOPLES HISTORY OF CLAIBORNE COUNTY, TN, 1801-1988

William and Benjamin Rogers, brothers born in (2) England of Norman descent, came to America in the 1730s. Researchers claim they were the (2) descendants of John Rogers, editor of the Matthew's Bible, who was burned at the stake in Smithfield, England, 1555, because of his religious views. Landing in Virginia, William went to Pennsylvania and Benjamin settled in (3) Wythe County, Virginia. He (3) married there and his son, John, my great-great grandfather, was (4) born. Benjamin later moved to Blount County,
Tennessee and died there in 1802.

While in Wythe County, Virginia, John married a Briton. They had eight children. He later moved to Washington County, Tennessee, married a second time to a (14)(15) Kelly. Name of his third wife is (16) unknown. In all, he was the father of 25 children.

John Rogers, a (17) Revolutionary War soldier, came to Powell Valley, Claiborne County, Tennessee in (5a) 1799 and settled on a large farm. (Presently located on Highway 63 about two miles west of the Speedwell Post Office.) He died January 5, 1822, and was buried on his farm. (monument still standing).

Of John Rogers' 25 children, two by his first wile: David, a major in the (12) War of 1812 and William, a doctor, (18) inherited the Speedwell farm. (The farm, divided, is still owned and farmed by seven generations of descendants of the two brothers.)

Major David (1779-1871) married Polly (Elizabeth) Lewis (1781-1880), daughter of Solomon Lewis (1750-1843), a Revolutionary War soldier, and (7) Catherine Moon Lewis (1759-1845). William (19) (1777-1853) married (20) (21) Catherine Lewis (22) (1781-1853), Polly's twin sister. She goes on to list Major David's descendants----------Submitted by: Edith Rogers Carr (Stephen H. Rogers' daughter)

Comments:
(2) Hasn't been verified.
(3) Benjamin's eldest sons were born in Culpeper County.... VA.
(4) We believe that John (TPM) was also born in Culpeper County. VA.
(5) Claiborne County History, Goodspeed Publishing Co, 1887. Biographical sketch of David F. Rogers. If this was a traditional story told and retold down through the generations it should be in this biog.
(7) Solomon Lewis Revolutionary War Pension application #21927 & R6309. Catherine Lewis was the Lewis girls Stepmother.
(12) Major David's Bounty land Wt # 43304-80. He was in the War against the Creek Indians.
(14) Wythe County Marriages, John Rogers-Polly Brawley, 19 Aug 1793 .
(15) Glimpses of Wythe County, page 39
(16) Major David's Bounty Land Wt #43304-80. Letter from Jennie Rogers gives us the last name of John's third wife, Hudson.
(17) Does not reference any Unit or Battle fought in.
(18) Deed Books indicate that the land was purchased from the heirs of John (TPM)
(19) Will Book A, page 107. William died in 1836
(20) 1850 Census, Claiborne County, M432-874, page 329. Her name was Susan.
(21) Family Bible of John Weir, records his daughter Mary I. G. Weir's marriage, 3 Sep, 1840, to William F. Rogers, son of Dr. William and Susan Rogers.
(22) Deed Book U, page 515. I believe she died between June 1850 (official date of census) and Jan 1851, when the heirs of Rev. Dr. William sold their interest in his property.

John (TPM) Rogers grave site
A Large Monument at John Rogers grave site; Rogers
In Memory of John Rogers
American Revolutionary Soldier (23) 1774-1776 and 1780
placed by his descendants named on back.

The foot stone at the grave says John Rogers - born (4) Wythe County, VA, date Unknowen (sic), Died Jan 5, 1822. There is also a DAR Marker at the head of the grave reading: John Rogers, VA Cpl. 3 Regit, Revolutionary War, June 1, 1757, Jan 5 1822.

Comment:
(4) We believe that John (TPM) was also born in Culpeper County. VA.
(23) If they are claiming he was in the 3d VA Regit. this should read 1776-1778

The following was taken from; Claiborne County History, Goodspeed Publishing Co., 1887. Reprinted 1990 by Mountain Press, Signal Mountain, TN, page 11.

David F. Rogers, farmer and stock raiser, was born near his present residence, October 26, 1813, the son of David and Mary (Lewis) Rogers. The former was of English origin, born in 1779, in Wythe County, VA. and deceased in this county, in 1873; the latter was of Scotch stock, born in Guilford County, NC, in 1781, and deceased in this county, February 13, 1880, in her one-hundredth year. The father came to Washington County when twelve years of age, and to this county in 1801, and was a farmer, and powder manufacturer.
In the Indian war he was a major, and in the years 1829, 1830, 1831, 1832, 1835 and 1836 he was in the Legislature. He was a Union Republican. The mother was a Methodist. Our subject, the seventh of thirteen children, seven now living, has always lived near his birthplace, and has, by his reading habits, largely educated himself. When thirty-three years of age he began manufacturing and carding wool, also milling, continuing for 28 years. In 1875 he came to his present residence, which he bought of the McLaine heirs, and now owns about 1400 acres, which he has greatly improved, as it was a Confederate camping ground during the war. He is a Republican. May 12, 1836, he married Elizabeth, daughter of Elisha and Lydia (Merritt) Hampton, born in Stokes County, N. C., May 12, 1816. She is a Methodist. Their children are David, Josephine, John P. Silas I., Horace M., Sneed, W. F., Mary (deceased), Sarah A. (deceased), Hugh H. (deceased), and Reuben C. (deceased), Besides his own children he educated five grandchildren.

Comment:
I don't believe we can get any closer in time or relationship to John (TPM) than this Biog. David F. Rogers, grandson of John (TPM) was born 1813, 54 years before Stephen H. Rogers. David, born during John (TPM's) life time, was about 9 years old when his grandfather died. If there were any War Stories to hand down, they should have been included in this Biog. The only mistake he made was stating that his father was born in Wythe County instead of Montgomery County VA,

Revolutionary War Record
Rogers of the 3d VA Regit.
John Rogers Service Record, National Archives Microfilm M881-955

Enlisted in the 3d VA. Reg., 23 Feb. 1776, in Captain Gustavas Brown Wallace's Company. The record begins with a pay slip dated Oct. 1776-Dec 1776. In May 1777 he was promoted to Cpl. in Wallace's Co. In Nov. 1777, Captain Wallace was transferred to the General Staff and Lieut.. John Frances Mercer was promoted to Captain. John Rogers was discharged on 26 Feb., 1778.
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Hosea Rogers Service Record, National Archives Microfilm M881-955. Enlisted in the 3d VA. Reg., 23 Feb. 1776, in Captain Gustavas Brown Wallace's Company. The record begins with a pay slip dated Oct. 1776-Dec 1776. Hosea Rogers was discharged on 26 Feb. 1778.
--------------------------------
Hosea Rogers Pension Record, National Archives Microfilm M804-2074.
Rogers, Hosea # S 3833, His application states that he was from King George County, Va. and enlisted in the 3d VA Regit. About the 15th of Feb. 1776.

Comments: 1. Gustavas B. Wallace was from King George County, VA.
2. John Frances Mercer was from Stafford County, VA. he died in Baltimore, MD in 1820.
-----------------------------------
Revolutionary War Muster Rolls, 3d VA Regiment 1776-78, National Archives
Microfilm M246-97, frame 140.

The following is a list of Absentees from Capt. John Frances Mercers Company, dated March 1778. The following men were discharged Feb. 26, 1778. Daniel James, George Jones, George Patton, Jeremiah Kindall, John King, William Oliver, John Rogers, Peter Nicholson, Weedon Williamson, William
McCullough, Edward Bowling, Peter Byram, James Jones, Richard Sims, Moses Baker, Valintine King, Samuel Wharton, James Arrowsmith, John Jackson, David Price, Hosea Rogers, Nathaniel Snipe, Isaac Rose, John Thompson, William Davis, George Boyle, and John Garner.

Comments: If you compare the list of men discharged from the 3d VA Regiment in Feb 1778, with John Montgomery's List of Tithables for Fincastle County 1773, you will find only one name common to both lists, John Rogers.

This list is found in..... NEW RIVER TITHABLES, by Mary B. Kegley. Fincastle County Tithables 1773
John Montgomery was assigned to take the Tithables in Capt. Herbert's Company.

The following was taken from VIRGINIA TAX PAYERS, 1782-87, Other Than Those Published by the United States Census Bureau, by Augesta B. Fothergill & John Mark Naugle.

Rodgers from King George County, Virginia, 1782 Enuch, Hosea, James, 2 John's, Joseph, and William.

Rogers from Montgomery County, Virginia, 1782 Alexander, Benjamin, John, Joseph, Rubin, Thomas and William.

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The following was taken from Annals of Southwest Virginia 1769-1800 by Lewis Preston Summers Vol. II, pages 1379-1410.

The following list of Revolutionary Soldiers from Southwest Virginia has been compiled from sources believed to be absolutely reliable. This list contains over 1800 names of men who served in the Revolution and Dunmore's War from the counties of Washington, Botetourt, Montgomery, and Fincastle in Virginia. It lists the Soldiers Name, Rank or Unit served in, Battle fought in or County served from.

Comment: Benjamin, James, David, Joseph, and John Rogers are listed, on page 1405, from Montgomery Co. and as having fought in the Battle of Guilford C. H. (No mention of the Battle of King's Mt. or the 3d Virginia Regit.). Of the 1800 men on the list, NOT ONE (ZERO) was recorded as having been in the 3d VA Regiment.

----------------------------------------------------
Again from the Annals Of Southwest Virginia, Vol. 1. page 771. At a Court held for Montgomery County, May 8th 1782

The following men produced sufficient proof that they ought to be paid for provisions furnished by them while on duty in North Carolina to join G. Green, lost in action at the Reedy Fork. James Crofford, Richd. Muse, Nathan Morgan, Thos. Tosh, Geo. Ewing, Moses Justice, Archd. Retherford, Stephen Sanders, Fran. Day, William Graves, Wm. Campbell, Isaac Campbell, James Campbell, James White, John Reagh, Archy
Reagh, Thos. Muse, John Ewing, George Caldwell, Wm. Dean, Geo. Hopkins, John Rutherford, Charles Rigney, Benjamin Rogers, James Rogers, David Roger (Rogers?), Joseph Rogers, John Busterd, John Burnam, Terry Harrell, John Dougless, Wm. Handley, Rubn. Byrd, John Rogers, Wm. Smith, Geo. Martin, Wm. James, Wm. Abram, Warren Filpat, James Tosh, Joseph Love, Peter Laughlin, Adam Dutlin, Wm. Moor, James Douglass, John Newland, and Alexr. Ewing.

Comment: I searched the pension records for the men listed and the men in bold lived long enough to apply for a pension. I examined all the records and not one soldier claimed to be at the Battle at Kings Mountain.
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The following was taken from KING'S MOUNTAIN and ITS HEROES: history of the BATTLE OF KINGS MOUNTAIN, October 7th, 1780, and the events which led to it, by Lyman C. Draper, LL. D., 1881, page 522; OFFICIAL REPORT[From the Virginia Gazette, Nov. 18th, and Massachusetts Spy, Nov. 30th, 1780]
-----------------------------

A state of the proceedings of the Western Army, from the 25th of September 1780, to the reduction of Major Ferguson, and the army under his command.
-------------------------------

On receiving intelligence that Major Ferguson had advanced as high up as Gilbert Town, in Rutherford County, and threatened to cross the mountains to the western waters, Col. William Campbell, with four hundred men from Washington County, Virginia, Col. Isaac Shelby, with two hundred and forty
from Sullivan County of North Carolina, and Lieut.-Col. John Sevier, with two hundred and forty men, of Washington County, assembled at Watauga, on the 25th of September, where they were joined by Col. Charles McDowell, with one hundred and sixty men from the Counties of Burke and Rutherford, who had fled before the enemy to the western waters.

We began our march on the 26th, and on the 30th we were joined by Col. Cleveland, on the Catawba River, with three hundred and fifty men, from the Counties of Wilkes and Surry. No one officer having properly a right to command in chief, on the 1st of October, we dispatched an express to Maj. Gen. Gates, informing him of our situation, and requesting him to send a general officer to take the command of the whole. In the meantime Col. Campbell was chosen to act as commandant till such general officer should arrive. We marched to the Cowpends, on Broad River, in South Carolina, where we were joined by Col. James Williams, with four hundred men, on the evening of the 6th of October, who informed us, that the enemy lay encamped somewhere near the Cherokee Ford, of Broad River, about thirty miles distant from us.

By a council of the principal officers, it was then thought advisable to pursue the enemy that night with nine hundred of the best horsemen, and leave the weak horses and footmen to follow as fast as possible. We began our march with nine hundred of the best men, about eight o'clock the same evening; and, marching all night, came up with the enemy about three o'clock P.M. of the 7th, who lay encamped on the top of King's Mountain, ----------
Signed by
WILLIAM CAMPBELL
ISAAC SHELBY
BENJ. CLEVELAND

Comment: I believe that Lieut. Col. John Sever and his two hundred and forty men were from Old Washington County, North Carolina, part of which became Washington County, Tennessee. This OFFICIAL REPORT does not indicate that any Montgomery County, Virginia Militia took part in this Battle.

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Conclusion: If, after studying all the evidence that I have cited in this message, you still believe that John (TPM's) Revolutionary War experience included a two year tour in the 3d Virginia Regiment and the Battle of King's Mountain, we will never be able to correct the errors in our Rogers genealogy. I still don't believe a newly married or about to be married young man would just happen to be 300 miles from home and enlist for two years on the very day that this Regiment was organized.

I believe the "traditional stories" supposedly handed down through the generations originated in the early 1900s by someone with a vivid Imagination. These stories about ones ancestors were told to boost their own ego's and self worth. If they were descendants of some war hero their status in the community was greatly enhanced.

Jerry, you wrote something in your message that disturbed me. You wrote about what John (TPM) might say about our discussions. "Heck, what difference does it make now?" If we are going to sanitize our ancestral history, it makes a great difference. I believe John would say, Don't make me out to be someone I
wasn't. I wasn't a revolutionary, I took up arms against the Indians, Tories and the English only to protect my home and family.

Ray

Comment from Jerry: Ray, I believe you have done a good job gathering and documenting corrections of many of the errors made by past Rogers researchers. Thanks for all your hard work. However, I must comment about your last paragraph. I believe you took my comment “Heck, what difference does it make now?” out of context. This comment relates to whether John (TPM) served at the Battle of King’s Mountain and/or the Battle at Guilford Court House. In the final analysis, it really does not matter since we know that he did serve.

I do not agree with your assumption that he took up arms against the Indians, Torries, and the English only to protect his home and family. Guilford Court House, NC is a long way from the SW Virginia frontier. I am not going to try to read too much into this, but I don’t believe you can either. Were John and his brothers revolutionaries? I don’t believe we have any way of knowing, but remember that not only were John and several of his brothers at the Battle of Guilford Court House, but we also know that they did a lot more.

From the three brothers who lived long enough to file for Revolutionary War pensions, we know that they had served in several campaigns that took them a long way from home into KY and NC. Also remember that Jeremiah did serve in a VA line Regiment under Col Joseph Crockett. He served in VA, marched to MD and then to Ft. Pitt, and then down the Ohio to the current location of Louisville, KY. Again, my point is that we should not try to label them, let’s just be thankful and proud that they did what they did.

May 16 2008 07:54:52